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wispfoxThere is a post bubbling away beneath the surface of my thoughts which may or may not manage to come out in this post, as a result of the combination of ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
metahacker's post on cuddling and affection with friends-who-are-not-necessarily-lovers, and figmentj's post on dating when not seen as an audition.
It took me a very long time to understand that, for most people, and in the context of typical societal norms, cuddling was assumed to be sexual. Touch at all - beyond a handshake - was assumed to be an expression of sexual interest.
An additional difficulty with wrapping my head around this concept is that my line between finding someone interesting and wanting to seek them out and spend more time with them, and being sexually attracted to them is very thin. And, people who I find interesting enough to actively seek out are people I would like to cuddle, and there is probably at least some amount of sexual attraction there. It's not quite true that everyone that I'm close to and seek out and am cuddly with is also someone that I have some sexual attraction to, but it's very close.
But having that attraction does not mean that I - or they - have time, energy, sufficient levels of attraction, or even necessarily are aware of it. So, for me, cuddling is _not_ automatically a sexual thing - and has never been - and the idea of there always being a sexual aspect to touch and cuddling is a hard one for me to grasp. However, it does seem true that, at some level at least, whatever nebulous concepts sexual attraction contains is frequently involved in whose touch I seek out.
Also in whose touch I am not comfortable with. If there is any level of sexual content in cuddling for another person and I am not interested in going there, I will not be comfortable cuddling them. This does not even need to mean that they are aware of said context, so I am not entirely sure how I can tell, sometimes. If I can't tell, I will tend to err on the side of caution, so if I can't read a person, I will generally not touch them. Too much cultural baggage tied up in touch, especially cross-gender. This was a very, very hard-learned lesson.
The frsutrating part about this, though, is that I do still find myself hugging people, sometimes, because the social costs of not doing so are more than I can handle right now. This frustrates me when I do it, and is usually a good sign I'm not actually up to group social interactions.
So many things meant by 'attraction', even 'sexual attraction'. So much tangled up in that concept, and the related concepts of the process of sexual entanglement and dating.
Why does [edited to add: anyone believe that] it need[s] to be true that touch and cuddling are completely unrelated to attraction in order for them to be non-sexual? Attraction may often, and possibly usually, contain sexual desire, but that isn't the only thing in there. That isn't the only possible context for touch between adults! Including adults who _are_ sexually involved with each other.
metahacker's post on cuddling and affection with friends-who-are-not-necessarily-lovers, and figmentj's post on dating when not seen as an audition.It took me a very long time to understand that, for most people, and in the context of typical societal norms, cuddling was assumed to be sexual. Touch at all - beyond a handshake - was assumed to be an expression of sexual interest.
An additional difficulty with wrapping my head around this concept is that my line between finding someone interesting and wanting to seek them out and spend more time with them, and being sexually attracted to them is very thin. And, people who I find interesting enough to actively seek out are people I would like to cuddle, and there is probably at least some amount of sexual attraction there. It's not quite true that everyone that I'm close to and seek out and am cuddly with is also someone that I have some sexual attraction to, but it's very close.
But having that attraction does not mean that I - or they - have time, energy, sufficient levels of attraction, or even necessarily are aware of it. So, for me, cuddling is _not_ automatically a sexual thing - and has never been - and the idea of there always being a sexual aspect to touch and cuddling is a hard one for me to grasp. However, it does seem true that, at some level at least, whatever nebulous concepts sexual attraction contains is frequently involved in whose touch I seek out.
Also in whose touch I am not comfortable with. If there is any level of sexual content in cuddling for another person and I am not interested in going there, I will not be comfortable cuddling them. This does not even need to mean that they are aware of said context, so I am not entirely sure how I can tell, sometimes. If I can't tell, I will tend to err on the side of caution, so if I can't read a person, I will generally not touch them. Too much cultural baggage tied up in touch, especially cross-gender. This was a very, very hard-learned lesson.
The frsutrating part about this, though, is that I do still find myself hugging people, sometimes, because the social costs of not doing so are more than I can handle right now. This frustrates me when I do it, and is usually a good sign I'm not actually up to group social interactions.
So many things meant by 'attraction', even 'sexual attraction'. So much tangled up in that concept, and the related concepts of the process of sexual entanglement and dating.
Why does [edited to add: anyone believe that] it need[s] to be true that touch and cuddling are completely unrelated to attraction in order for them to be non-sexual? Attraction may often, and possibly usually, contain sexual desire, but that isn't the only thing in there. That isn't the only possible context for touch between adults! Including adults who _are_ sexually involved with each other.
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no subject
Date: 2009-02-23 10:05 pm (UTC)Oh, my stars, I hope it doesn't. Because I want touch and cuddling - even with sexual partners - a whole lot more often than I want anything sexual.
Sometimes I want to cuddle people just the way I want to cuddle my cats: For the sheer happy-making pleasure of the thing itself, unconnected with any other desire. It does seem as if a lot of people have trouble with that, though, so in practice I tend to reserve even that impulse for people who already know me intimately enough that I don't have to explain what I'm after. Or, you know, for my cats.
no subject
Date: 2009-02-24 03:56 pm (UTC)_I_ don't believe that it needs to be true, but an awful lot of people seem to. :)
no subject
Date: 2009-02-25 02:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-02-25 02:18 am (UTC)Ok. Was a bit confused as to how that was confusing, but it _is_ february. ;)
Mmm. Rants...
no subject
Date: 2009-02-23 11:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-02-24 01:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-02-24 03:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-02-28 05:22 am (UTC)Touching
Date: 2009-03-02 06:36 am (UTC)Do I like touching women I like more than I like touching men I like - yep. Much more fun. But that's just the general woman-loving-woman part of me, not that I'm particularly attracted to that one person.
And receiving a good hug is...WONderful. Doesn't matter which of my friends is doing the hugging.
Have people misunderstood before, and thought I was coming on to them? yep. Sadly yes. Lots of people don't understand that physical affection can be non-sexual, or at the least that the hug or backrub or whatever is all that is desired, not a means to an end.
As a young teenager I often wished that my mom had allowed me to have long hair when I was growing up, because I missed the years that my girlfriends would play with each others' hair, and mine had been in a pixie cut (too short to do anything with). I LOVED (and still do) the feeling of someone playing with my hair.
Touching is fun.