[brains] attraction, others'

[wispfox]

(I am amused to note a fair amount of discomfort with posting this, perhaps because I can still feel my younger self in the back of my mind, who was utterly astounded by people being attracted to me, when I first got into college.)

It's... oddly refreshing to have people I spend a fair amount of time with (usually, friends or potential friends) - which tends to imply at least some level of interest - tell me that they aren't (physically) attracted to me. Especially - but not solely - if they are people I have trouble reading. I don't know what to do with this, really. I mean, yes, were they people that I had strong attraction to, it'd suck, but I rarely have attraction to people without some sense that they are attracted as well. (Might be nearly never, at this point, unlike in high school, although I never _feel_ like I am certain about mutual attraction when it comes time to indicate it!) I am, however, much better at not being likely to think I'm attracted to someone because their attraction to me is strong. Shielding is _gooood_, m'kay?

I have to wonder how much this relates to - once I did start dating - the fact that there tended to be a majority, if not the entirety, of my friends (especially guys, so it's more likely to be that I'm being cautious about that possibility with guys than girls) who were crushing on me. Most likely, working as a waitress also had something to do with this. I'm sure another part is that it's just _tiring_ having part of my brain always trying to make sure I'm not giving confusing messages (with people I can read reasonably well or who I trust will speak up, this is less of a problem. Of course, with people I can read reasonably well, the likelihood of me being attracted goes from basically none to at least possible). I do also wonder if part of my obliviousness as far as noticing attraction and/or desire to act on it is just that I got tired of the exhausting effort needed to figure such things out purely from non-verbal communication. This is almost certainly at least part of why what I expect to happen has a major effect on what subtle things I will notice in the people I interact with. It helps me focus my awareness of other people's behavior.

Now, I note that I'm _not_ saying that I don't like it when friends or potential friends tell me when they _are_ attracted. Indeed, I prefer to know one way or another, if they are people I'm likely to spend a fair amount of time with. But, while knowing of attraction makes anything that would move from that knowledge possible, it also opens up the often awkward experience of trying to let people down clearly, but kindly. And knowing of _lack_ of attraction means I can turn off that part of me that is always trying to keep an eye out for potentially awkward situations, and not worry about it.

Does make me wonder how much easier my life would be if my body language skills were even vaguely useful (most of the in person information I get is through empathy and conversation and such, and not reliant on subtle non-verbal cues). Heh.

*sudden amusement* If you people start feeling a need to comment in order to clarify whether or not you are attracted to me, I will be simultaneously amused and weirded out. Just noting. ;) Mostly, because this is _not_ the right context for that! Generality, not specificity!

Comments

[phaedra-lari.livejournal.com]

I really resonate with this. I can't stand wondering whether someone I like is attracted to me if I know I'm not attracted to them. Like you, it makes me feel like I have to be constantly paranoid about how I act lest I inadvertantly say/do something that could be misinterpreted and cause awkwardness or hurt feelings. So it's always great to have lack of attraction known for certain so I can pay no attention to it :)

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

The fun thing? There are very few states where it doesn't bother me to not know if someone is attracted to me. Some people, I can tell that they are not, and it's great. Otherwise, though... (http://www.livejournal.com/users/wispfox/546962.html?thread=3524498#t3524498)

[randysmith]

This makes a lot of sense to me, and I don't think has to do with the verbal/non-verbal communication thing, at least in any binary fashion. I think the major thing is that someone being attracted to you adds complexity to your interactions with them. It doesn't *have* to from your side, and if you can avoid that that's better, but it means that they may be acting weirdly around you, and you'll have to deal with that (and be prepped to deal with it). *And* if you might be attracted back that really increases the range of issues you need to worry about. If they're not attracted to you, then you know where you stand, and it's a fairly simple place. (Second best is knowing that they *are*, and dead last is not being certain).

I also think, sadly, that there's a vulnerability involved in someone being attracted to you (not just when you are to them). It's probably related to the above, and has something to do with how they treat you. Tricky. I think we had a discussion about this once, but I'm not remembering the details--pity.

[randysmith]

There is, of course, an unfortunate aspect to all this. Because most people feel the way you (wispfox; I'm not talking to myself) do, and because most people know that most people feel that way, that sets up a major dynamic where people are reluctant to confess that they're attracted to someone, which leaves us in the worst situation. Arrggh. I hate that (in a personal way--I do it, and I don't like that fact. Take your rejection like a tough member of the human species, darn it! :-}).

[leiacat.livejournal.com]

I'm perfectly content to take rejection. I expect I will be a heck of a lot more cautious about admitting attraction when a friend (whom I would be quite content to be rejected by) stopped talking to me altogether after a disclosure. I _thought_ I did a good enough job of making sure to put in a tall heap of qualifiers and disclaimers and making sure I'd be perfectly cool with a "thanks, flattered, not interested".

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

a friend (whom I would be quite content to be rejected by) stopped talking to me altogether after a disclosure.

Buh! Damn...

[majes.livejournal.com]

Mmmm... wispfox brains; thems good eatin!

Heh. This is one of those things that I'm likewise bad at. Worse still, what I generally do is make up my mind without consulting - either "this person is attracted to me" or "this person isn't attracted to me" and then I just start behaving accordingly. Unfortunately, my internal mechanism for measuring this is skewed in toward the negative ("isn't attracted") side. Now this in general serves me well, cuz it means that I tend to "figure out" on my own that someone is not interested in me in that way and can just move along, acting in accordance to that, without generating any sort of social weirdness thereafter. However, it has on occasion worked against me - several times when I was younger, girls would tell me "I had a crush on you for a year, but you never acted interested, so I ended up going out with X instead." Every time this has happened, it was someone whom I was attracted to and interested in, but had written off in my mind as not attracted to me. Only a few girls (one of whom is one of my long-term x-es) ever approached me and expressed that they were attracted to me in absence of me expressing it first.
Generally on the occasions where I have guessed "is attracted", it has just been brick-to-the-head obvious.

[ladytabitha.livejournal.com]

*points down-comment*  :)

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

(first try was low in coherency. Trying again)

I do some really strange combination of assuming attraction and not.

I appear to assume at a very subconscious level that everyone who has any level of interest in me is attracted to me. However, I don't act on that subconscious thing and generally tend to not notice it. I am also intensely oblivious to non-verbal expressions of attraction - possibly more so if I have had enough interaction with a person to have realized any level of interest (because, if I am attracted, too, I'm paranoid and question all possible indications of mutual interest. If I'm not attracted, I don't want to deal with the other person's attraction to me). So I sorta assume _both_ sides.

This internal confusion might be why I tend to just _tell_ people if my own attraction/interest is strong enough, actually.

[leiacat.livejournal.com]

Sorry, but best you'll get from me at this time is "Insufficient Data".

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

*splutter* I don't _want_ people to tell me that here! ;P

'course, that's pretty much where I thought you were (and is where I am).

[leiacat.livejournal.com]

Sorry, but not too much so.

(The long version of that is, of course, "I do not exclude the possibility of developing an attraction if I get to know you better")

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

The long version of that is, of course, "I do not exclude the possibility of developing an attraction if I get to know you better"

*nod* I have more than no attraction, at least based on the little interaction we've had, but not enough to do anything beyond friends level stuff with you. So, yes. Your longer version is fairly close to mine.

[brynndragon.livejournal.com]

For no apparent reason, at some point my brain (specificly the subconscious commitee) decided that I should start working from the assumption that people find my attractive, rather than from the assumption that they don't. That wouldn't be such a big deal if I didn't have left-over social brainwashing regarding being nice to people to the point of putting their desires before mine, which no longer causes me to actually *do* things in that category but still causes me guilt/anxiety when I don't do them. To the point where I will preferentially avoid any such situation. Which is why I have a really hard time being social nowadays.

I'm extremely annoyed at the commitee about this, and have been trying to find ways to fix it (i.e. get to the point where I either finish getting rid of the brainwashing so I don't feel compelled to do anything about people being attracted to me, or get rid of the assumption - preferably both).

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

*nod* To a degree - usually unconsciously - I have the same assmption about other people being attracted to me. It's low enough level, though, that I don't act in any way based on that, other than that of being especially cautious about mixed messages. And I don't know when I picked that up, although it has to have been since I started college.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

in fact... (http://www.livejournal.com/users/wispfox/546962.html?thread=3524498#t3524498)

[ladytabitha.livejournal.com]

From my .sigs file:

Marten) It's the Second Law of Sexual Dynamics - if you think a girl is attracted to you, you are wrong.
Steve) So what you're saying is there's no way to tell if a girl is interested in you.
Marten) Short of her climbing into my lap and humping vigorously, no.
- http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=64

That's me, yup yup.  I can ever tell with guys, and I can rarely tell with women.  Thankfully, blessedly, I have very little interest in taking anyone new on, for any level of the rship dance, so I can entirely shut that off.

It is not my responsibility how others act on their attraction to me.  So while the admission conversation may be awkward, it's better than an expectation of "I'm attracted to you, acknowledge this now!".

NOT that I've had that HAPPEN to me before.  OH no.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

better than an expectation of "I'm attracted to you, acknowledge this now!".

NOT that I've had that HAPPEN to me before. OH no.

Sheesh. :) (incidentally - probably because it was in person, I think my expressing of interest in you was - bar none - the most awkward it's ever been for me)

And... _can_ you turn off the 'is this person attracted to me?' thing when actively not looking? I find I don't (can't?), due to the not wanting to be confusing thing.

[ladytabitha.livejournal.com]

[us] Really?  Whyhow?  *curious*

[brain-thing] Hmm.  I find that it is always on, much like other things are always on.  I just don't do anything about them.  Frinst, I will probably always have the "I could be what that person needs" thing in my head, but I haven't acted on it - or even really consciously thought it - in so long that it may as well not exist.

I think that's what I mean, then.  The program is always there, just the act-on-it lines have been commented out.  For me, acting on that particular thing involves anything from conscious contemplation to active conversation.  I just don't give a good goddamn about such things nowadays, so I don't really think about it at all.

This is not to say I wouldn't be receptive, depending largely on who's doing the talking, just that I don't think of the attraction dance on my own.

Which is good, as it's really fucking annoying.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

us: Um... because, IIRC, I was having a difficult time reading you, was feeling nearly incoherent, and had no idea how to express both that I had interest and that I was a) ok if you didn't also have interest, b) not trying to be pushy about getting a reply _now_, but c) nervous about having said anything.

brain things: I don't tend to act on them unless I am strongly interested, myself, and how strong it needs to be depends on how busy I already am. In fact... this (http://www.livejournal.com/users/wispfox/546962.html?thread=3524498#t3524498) might be interesting, although yet another example of my being _REALLY_ _STRANGE_. (how is that even possible?!)

[ladytabitha.livejournal.com]

I have a difficult time reading me, too, so.  :)

I have to have a seriously high level of attraction in a person before I'll mention it, nowadays.  Even then, it's more likely to come out as "You're neat, we should hang out more!" or other such enthusiastic nonsense like that.  Expressing and following up on interest is stress, and it's rare that I care that much.  :p