[words] Because now I'm curious...

[wispfox]

Define 'alien', if you would?

Mine, from an attempt at explaining it in a comment from previous previous post:

The behaviors of the people who surrounded me generally made no sense, for most of my life. I was missing the nonverbal portion of communication, and most of the apparently 'obvious' things that most people pick up on.

So, being surrounded by beings whose behavior made no sense, and who mostly had _NO_ idea why I was so very confused, when my confusion made perfect sense to me, made me decide at a very young age that I wasn't actually human, and ended up on the wrong planet (this was probably after I started reading science fiction). Especially since them not understanding why I was confused tended to mean that most people didn't try to explain anything to me.

Most of my life, I spent people-watching, in an attempt to understand what the _hell_ was going on. Anthropological studies, if I had only known it at the time. That helped, some, but people with good skills in such taking the time to try to explain body language and tone and such - so I had a basis from which to try to start to understand such things - made the biggest difference.

In other words, I had to be taught how to speak the most prevalent language of human beings, because I did _not_ pick it up on my own. Ok, I got more than nothing; really dramatic stuff got through. But I never understood why people were so upset with me for not understanding what was going on before then.

--

I note that being different from others is _NOT_ what I mean by alien.

I mean... not being able to comprehend why other people do what they do, for most of my life. _All_ other people, and at least until I started collecting enough data to see patterns, pretty much all non-basic needs behaviors. Family, friends, no one made sense. Some were just kind/aware enough to try to explain things to me. That information - combined with those who tried to explain body language and such - helped with my anthropological attempts.

I mean having (figuratively) beat my head against walls and acted like an anthropologist in order to try to figure things out. I mean having made the poor choice of trying to pretend to be like the other humans, in order to possibly get a better idea of what the hell was going on (not that it worked, but it did mean I still find bits of that remaining in my psyche to pick out again).

It's not 'feeling different'. It's 'you people don't make _SENSE_, this can't really be where I'm from!'.

Not that I have any idea if this is going to be something that is explainable to someone who hasn't experienced it, now that I think about it...

Comments

[wurmwyd.livejournal.com]

Hi There!

I guess I'm pretty much the opposite of that, then. I understand what people say and do perfectly. It's when I try to figure out exactly WHY people do things that I feel like an alien. There are so many things that humans do, and of course they make sense because "That's the way we've ALWAYS done it". But then when I think about these things, they all just seem so ... ridiculous.

Why do we only have "breakfast foods" at breakfast-time? My tummy isn't READY for eggs, sausage, bacon, and hash browns that early! Why can't we serve those foods at night-time?

Why do we still keep daylight savings time?

Don't even get me started on love and sex.

I guess these things are why I feel alien sometimes. You're right, it's not quite the same as you. And I guess I just feel "different". But I seperate it in my mind from just being "weird". I feel "apart" sometimes.

[shrugs] Does that make any sense?

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

when I try to figure out exactly WHY people do things that I feel like an alien.

*nod* I get that, too, but that's less pervasive. It feels more like 'you people are doing things for really odd reasons', rather than 'what is the point of what you are doing?'

Really, I think that having felt like an alien for so long means that I don't _expect_ most people to make sense to me, even if I understand what they are doing and the immediate goal of said things. The 'because we always have' rule isn't a reason, it's an excuse...

But yes, I think it makes sense. :)

[bernmarx.livejournal.com]

The breakfast foods thing is more an issue of being born in the wrong culture, than on the wrong planet. Other cultures eat non-eggs for breakfast, and eat eggs at other times than just for breakfast.

[wurmwyd.livejournal.com]

Hi There!

Well yeah, there is that. I just couldn't come up with that many good: "Why do you people DO these things!?" examples than that.

[ayalanya.livejournal.com]

heh. yeah. i battled with my parents over this one for *years*. i tend to eat freakish things like leftover sushi, pizza, mac&cheese...it's good breakfast to me. i don't even like eggs or cereal all that much, and actively dislike bacon and sausage.

[aussie-nyc.livejournal.com]

I feel the other way round. I can make sense of people, but I have the clear and distinct feeling that my way of thinking doesn't make sense to anyone else. That's a lot stronger than just feeling different, but not at all what you describe.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

I can make sense of people, but I have the clear and distinct feeling that my way of thinking doesn't make sense to anyone else. That's a lot stronger than just feeling different, but not at all what you describe.

Interestingly, I _have_ the 'the way I think generally makes no sense to anyone else' thing - and it's always a pleasant surprise when it's proven to not be the case - but for me, it came from feeling like an alien for so long.

If other people's behavior made no sense to me for most of my life, there's no possible way I'm going to expect myself to make any more sense to them. *shrug*

[bernmarx.livejournal.com]

I feel confused both ways, especially about issues of love and friendship and such. I mean, I guess I get it on an intellectual level, but ... meh. It's just so strange.

Nanunanu.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

*chuckle*

Yay, space alienness!

[moominmolly.livejournal.com]

I suppose I actually answered the question, "do you sometimes imagine what it would be like to be an alien socialized on earth?", to which the answer is "totally!".

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Ah! Huh!

See, this is an utterly fascinating way to answer that question. :)

[moominmolly.livejournal.com]

Perhaps I'm an alien, then. :) But I always imagine things like that -- "what if I'm just a research subject in a really really elaborate experiment?" "what if I am really literally completely insane in the real world, and most everything I see is a hallucination?" And so on.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

*chuckle* See, I think about that kind of thing, too.

Which may or may not make it more likely that doing so makes you an alien. ;)

[moominmolly.livejournal.com]

Well, people who wonder about things like that are less weird to me than people who don't. :)

I guess I've never thought of it in terms of "am I an alien?", since even when I was the only person I knew or knew of who did/thought a particular thing or in a particular way, I didn't feel unreasonable or permanently unknowable. And, in most cases, I went on to find other people who did/thought the odd little niche things I did.

That said, I can understand the feeling. I was just lucky enough to not have it.

[ladytabitha.livejournal.com]

I do that!

"How can I be certain that we're all thinking the same thing when we use certain words?" is a personal favourite.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

"How can I be certain that we're all thinking the same thing when we use certain words?" is a personal favourite.

*nod* This is why I tend to throw lots of words at concepts, especially if I think it's likely to mean different things to the people that I'm talking to. It's also why I like people who echo back what they understood me to be saying! (because it's usually in their own words, and not mine, so I can see if the translation happened correctly)

[wcg.livejournal.com]

From m-w.com:

Main Entry: 1alien
Pronunciation: 'A-lE-&n, 'Al-y&n
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin alienus, from alius
1 a : belonging or relating to another person, place, or thing : STRANGE b : relating, belonging, or owing allegiance to another country or government : FOREIGN
2 : differing in nature or character typically to the point of incompatibility

When I say that I've often felt like an alien throughout my life, it's that 1b thing above: Feeling foreign, different, outside of the cultural norm. Not so much a 'space alien' as a person whose cultural socialization doesn't quite match that of the people I dwell among.

[eisa.livejournal.com]

With me, it was always "OK, you make sense..... but I don't work even remotely like that, and you don't seem to get me one bit."

[ian-gunn.livejournal.com]

Ah, I come at it from a slightly different direction. I'm somewhere on the other side of the dividing line between Autism Spectrum and Neuro Typical from you. My early childhood was similarly filled with incomprehension of other children's actions but I was able to learn body language earlier then you. I learned it and other social skills a lot later then most children did which pegged me as a social outcast in school and that did not change till sometime in high school, and then only in a small way. I also acted as an observer of humans and their social interactions. Social anthropology is a fun topic. If I were good at picking up languages I might have done that instead of physics. It was not till college that I felt at all skilled in normal social interactions. My experiences I believe matches that of many "geeks and science nerds". :) It was a painful childhood in some ways but I would not trade my logic and math skill for all the popularity in the world. *grin*

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

Hmmm.

I don't have this kind of alien-feeling, but I have little or no understanding of people hwo live very conventional lives, especially those who think right-wing politicians are kewl.

My construction of human existence is at an utter disconnect with theirs, as far as I can tell.

Most things that excite me pass them by, and vice versa.

I doubt this is what you meant...

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

*nod* Not what I meant, but it's also something I deal with.

This, at least, I expect most/all people to run into to some degree or another, however.

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

yep...my wierdness is kinda an aggregation of outlier status on a number of parameters, but I've found quite a few like me, more or less, especially on-line.

You've done a sterling job yourself, ya know :-)

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

yep...my wierdness is kinda an aggregation of outlier status on a number of parameters, but I've found quite a few like me, more or less, especially on-line.

*nod* Indeed. Me, too, although I'm fascinated to note that finding (or being found by) someone online can mean they are actually nearby. :)

You've done a sterling job yourself, ya know :-)

*immensely confused*

With...?

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

...with coping with ordinary humanses!

Only one on-line Wonderful Discovery Person I've actually met lives anywhere near me :-o

We Aussies are rather rare and thinly spread by world standards :-)

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

...with coping with ordinary humanses!

Ah. Yes, now. :) Lots of practice and anthropological studies. :)

Only one on-line Wonderful Discovery Person I've actually met lives anywhere near me :-o

*nod* I think I've only had one person I found online first - rather than in person first - who was local.

So it's not just a thinly spread problem. May, however, relate to the fact that I rarely remember people easily if I've not met them first!

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

I take a while, unless they seem Distinctive to me :-)

Of course I'm now luring locals into lj...or learning they were already there!

It doesn't help that I live about an hour or so south of Melbourne proper.

I know more nifty lj folks in Massachusetts than my state of Australia still however, I suspect :-0

Luck with any further anthropological studies, and isn't Olver Sacks nifty?

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

I take a while, unless they seem Distinctive to me :-)

Well, ditto. :)

Of course I'm now luring locals into lj...or learning they were already there!

Cooool. That helps!

It doesn't help that I live about an hour or so south of Melbourne proper.

Huh! Didn't know how far out you were. I knew you weren't in Melbourne proper, but not where you _were_.

I know more nifty lj folks in Massachusetts than my state of Australia still however, I suspect :-0

Heh. Possibly even more nifty LJ folks in the Boston area, even, I suspect. There seems to be a huge number of such in Boston. :)

Luck with any further anthropological studies, and isn't Olver Sacks nifty?

Thank you, and I have no clue who Olver Sacks is. :)

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

Oliver Sacks wrote "An Anthropologust on Mars" about Temple Grandin, and other stuff.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Aaaaah. I see. :)

[leiacat.livejournal.com]

I actually do a decent job of understanding people, but that understanding is purely intellectual. "It would never occur to me to do X because of Y, but I know that it's the reason that everyone around me does it, and I can sorta figure out how the mental connection between X and Y may have evolved, even if it's completely non-intuitive to me." So nowadays I feel like a reasonably well-acclimated alien who can for a while pass if need be, but there's still the overwhelming sensation of "damn, people are a weird, weird bunch".

Also, I get a fair bit of "most people don't understand my brain-OS, and things that are logical to me aren't to most others".

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

nowadays I feel like a reasonably well-acclimated alien who can for a while pass if need be, but there's still the overwhelming sensation of "damn, people are a weird, weird bunch".

Yep. I mostly no longer feel like an alien because I'm doing a reasonable job finding people - both online and locally - who do make sense to me, and some of them seem to think I make sense.

I suspect that if I were to deal more with mainstream people, I would go further back toward the feeling like an alien end of things.

Also, I get a fair bit of "most people don't understand my brain-OS, and things that are logical to me aren't to most others".

Yep. I get that, entirely too well.

[ladytabitha.livejournal.com]

Did I reply in here for this?  It's been sitting in my head for ages now.

I don't have this.  I can usually figure out why people act the way they do, due to having a strong need for things to make sense.  That doesn't stop me from staaaring at them - there's a difference between "Why did you do that?" and "Why did you do that?!?" - but usually I can figure it out.

I do know I practiced having facial expressions while I was younger.  How does my smile look, what does it convey, etc.  I still do that on occasion.

And sometimes, certain things make no sense to me, and it takes me ages to figure them out.  Such as facial expressions when one isn't interacting.  I finally sussed this out - people have their On face, when they're interacting with others, and their Off face, when they're not.  I apparently default strongly to Off, which'd explain why so many people think I'm annoyed.  *snort*

Now.  Stop writing viral posts, already!

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

You did not reply, no. :)

And I _like_ writing viral posts! ;)