[touch]

[wispfox]

I'm quite annoyed by my weird hunger state.

Want touch.

Don't want to touch for fear of that touch not being wanted and/or because I'm not yet comfortable enough with people to be comfortable with random affectionate touch and or cuddling _from_ them (I appear to not be willing to do such to people I would not be comfortable receiving it from). This has been true for months. I wonder, to some extent, if this is partly affected by the fact that the person I see the most often is not someone I can know one way or another about touch interest. It's neither always unwanted nor always wanted, so I can't get to a good non-asking-required state about it, and it's a constant uncertainty.

I seriously need to find time to spend with people with whom I don't have to question if the touch is likely to be wanted or not, and with whom I am sufficiently comfortable (aka: I can read them reasonably well, and what I read is comfortable for me) that I would be interested in random affectionate touch. Perhaps I should rephrase that to needing to figure out who such people _are_, locally (since not locally doesn't really help).

This frustrates the hell out of me, especially since I know that winter is coming, and I tend to need touch _more_ then, and tend to be less good about asking for it. Gah.

(and, well, this also affects my interest in anything even vaguely sexual, since if I'm not sure that people would want touch, why would I think they want anything beyond touch? So, I won't initiate anything if I'm even vaguely uncertain)

[edit: A couple of my replies to comments seemed to also need to be pointed at from this main post. See below]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/wispfox/346914.html?thread=2100514#t2100514
http://www.livejournal.com/users/wispfox/346914.html?thread=2101538#t2101538

[second edit: Sometimes, I really wish I were not so ridiculously dependant on touch! I mean, I like that I like it as much as I do. I do _not_ like that I need it as much or as often as I do]

Comments

[shadesong.livejournal.com]

I would snuggle you lots, were I there.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

*smile* I know, hon.

[regyt.livejournal.com]

I offer you useless non-local touch-friendliness. ^^

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

*laugh* Thanks much, hon. :)

[regyt.livejournal.com]

And when you start traveling, you can stop by and I'll give you cuddles here. ^^

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

New York City _scares_ me, though...

(yes, I am serious)

[brynndragon.livejournal.com]

Wow, you just put a lot of me recent feelings on the subject in a nutshell. I keep thinking I'm broken somehow, because I used to be happy with casual touch, but now I find I'm not very comfy with it, to the point where I tend to avoid places where it occurs without really knowing why I'm avoiding them (because that would mean acknowledging that I'm not comfy, which doesn't fit my self-image). Still trying to reconcile it, and not being very successful - if I want touch, I need to get touch, but I only want certain touch, and rejecting touch causes me to feel guilty, so maybe it's easier to just not bother with touch at all. Erg.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

but I only want certain touch, and rejecting touch causes me to feel guilty

Yes. And it makes me worried about the feelings of those whose touch I reject for reasons of insufficient comfort (because there's a bunch of people I _like_, quite a lot, but am not comfortable with random affectionate touch from), when I then proceed to a) accept/initiate with someone else, or b) post things like this in my journal.

Although, at the moment, it seems to be more about my _own_ ability to cope with the case of me being comfortable enough with someone else to be affectionate, but either them not being someone I can easily do so with (ticklishness, not being fond of touch, whatever), or them not being someone who is sufficiently comfortable with _me_.

I think part of the problem may simply be the fact that I was so anti-social for so long. I've lost touch with the local people I know, for the most part, and it's difficult for me to recover from that when I'm in a needy state.

[kightp.livejournal.com]

In periods of my life when I've found myself touch-hungry but without anyone in my life to fill the need, I've found it very helpful to schedule regular massages. No, it's not the same as personal touch from someone you love - but it's touch, nonetheless, and it makes me feel soooooo good.

I don't know if that's a possibility for you, but it's worth considering, especially if you know winter is going to be a problem.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

I actually have monthly massages, and have for a couple years now. Partly because my body _hates_ me, and massages help manage that, and partly because it _is_ regular touch (and I like my massage therapist a lot. She's very cool).

Massages help. Hugs help. But neither are what I'm aching for. *sigh*

Suggestion appreciated, though!

[bridgetester.livejournal.com]

Partly because my body _hates_ me

*quizzical look*

[catya.livejournal.com]

i think you probably know this, but physical affection is a fine thing with me.. (in a "don't sneak up on me" way, but that's a general cat rule :)

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

I do know this, when I think about it. I don't necessarily _remember_ it, though, because I mostly don't see you in contexts for which random physical affection makes sense to me. If that makes any sense. I shall attempt to remember to think of it, though. :)

[ayalanya.livejournal.com]

mew. perhaps we could reinstate the weekly cuddle-date?

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Certainly worth a shot. But... while cuddling with you is appreciated and helpful, I have a _terrible_ time remembering where is safe to touch, and where is not. It's fairly mentally intensive for me, because I have to have at least part of my brain aware, so I can't quite fully relax into it.

And I only just managed to figure out why I'm so confused by cuddling with you. It's not just that I can't tell if you would welcome it (because sometimes you don't), but that it's fairly difficult for me to remember where is safe, where is not, what _kinds_ of touch are safe, and what kinds are not. So I can't relax enough. It is still appreciated, though, and the one problem I don't have is having to drive to get to you. :)

[ayalanya.livejournal.com]

*nodnod* yeah. understood.

in regards to that, i'm thinking that it might be good to try to "turn off" some of the physical bits. it seems to be inconvenient to entirely too many people, myself included. i don't know for sure that i *can*, but it's worth a shot, and would make things easier for all involved.

[maedbh7.livejournal.com]

Course, you could just *ask* folks via LJ land :)

I understand that concept though. I'm extremely touch-friendly...but only with people I either know will understand that touch does not equal 'making a pass at them' or, well, with people I'd happily make a pass at. Clear as mud, right. The thing is, I'll swap touch with all manner of people; but I'm only interested in pursuing anything else with a handful of those. And often touch is interpretted to mean more than just "hey, touch feels good". So, yeah, I think I see your point. -H...

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Course, you could just *ask* folks via LJ land :)

And, I could ask via email. And in-person. And all sorts of other ways... But first I need to remember with whom I was sufficiently comfortable for their feelings on the matter to even matter. And then I need to figure out if that fact is still true, or if the fact that I've been anti-social for 4 months has modified things.

And then, for the most part, I need to visit _them_, because I don't live sufficiently close to the city. And perhaps I need to get a certain amount of reconnection before I'm comfortable enough again. And there's a huge amount of 'but I don't _wanna_ have to do all that!' in there, especially when I'm feeling this needy.

I think part of why I'm so needy is because I _am_ finally feeling social enough again to realize exactly how long it's been.

The other part of what you just said also applies, at least in terms of my being sufficiently comfortable with the other person. It is, however, not apparently what's driving this. I think the degree to which I need touch is overriding most of that worry, as well possibly as the _suddenness_ with which I was aware of that need.

[bridgetester.livejournal.com]

but only with people I either know will understand that touch does not equal 'making a pass at them' or, well, with people I'd happily make a pass at.

*nods emphatically*

[bridgetester.livejournal.com]

I # the too distant for touch thing.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

*blinks* Translate '#' for me, please?

[bridgetester.livejournal.com]

Second, third, fourth, etc.

For what it’s worth...

[beowabbit]

For what it’s worth, you’re welcome to touch me, and I don’t have many or severe discomfort-buttons around touch. But you’ve said you have a hard time reading me (you’re not the only person to say that, and it kind of bums me out), so I’m probably not on your feels-OK-to-touch list anyway.

Don't want to touch for fear of that touch not being wanted and/or because I'm not yet comfortable enough with people to be comfortable with random affectionate touch and or cuddling _from_ them (I appear to not be willing to do such to people I would not be comfortable receiving it from).

This is interesting. I think people almost always assume that we can take our cues for how to touch somebody else from how that person touches us. I usually do. But I’m conscious that that’s a sort of a communication shortcut, and that at least in theory it’s perfectly possible for somebody to enjoy (for instance) rubbing my head without being comfortable having their head rubbed. In an ideal world, I suppose those things would be negotiated separately.

Do you think that’s why you’re only comfortable touching people you’d be comfortable receiving touch from – that you (quite reasonably) worry that they’ll assume they can reciprocate?

For me, I think the list of people I’m comfortable touching and the list of people I’m comfortable being touched by overwhelmingly overlap, but there are probably a few people on both ends who only fall into one of those categories. (For instance, I need to trust somebody a bit more to be touched by them than to touch them – trust them in the “this person is not a danger to me” kind of way. On the other hand, I need to trust people’s judgement and perception more in order to be comfortable touching them, in the ”this person is clueful and stable” kind of way.)

Ramblings of a tired beowabbit...

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

But you’ve said you have a hard time reading me (you’re not the only person to say that, and it kind of bums me out), so I’m probably not on your feels-OK-to-touch list anyway.

Ok to touch, yes, or I'd not hug you. Someone I would necessarily seek such out from, not so much. Not being able to read someone makes touch _much_ less relaxing/comfortable.

AFA recpirical touch... I quite literally can't think of anyone that I would want to touch who I would _not_ want touch from.

I know of people who don't enjoy touch, so I would tend to not initiate it. And I know of people who I am _willing_ to be touched by, but who are not people I would generally initiate it with. That, I think, is the difference between the two - there are people I'm fine with touch from, but they are not people I would seek it out from, so they are not people who help much with my touch cravings. Generally, I think, due to a lower ability to relax with them.

I don't _think_ it's about worrying about someone wanting to recipricate, because of the above stuff about desire to touch a person automatically meaning (for me) that I'd appreciate the gesture in return.

Perhaps it's that people can misunderstand me being willing to be touched by someone as me actively wanting it, so I'm cautious about it? Because being willing to be touched by is a higher level of trust than no touch allowed at all, but indicates a lower level of comfort than me wanting to initiate it.

I don't know. I confuse me. :)

I seem also to be able to get a sense of a person _without_ being able to read them, which confuses me terribly. It's rare, but it happens. And those are one of the most difficult positions to be in for me, afa touch, because I have to not only have discussed it with them (fairly normal for me), but I also have to ignore my normal 'this person's body languge is not actively welcoming touch, so I won't' signals. Because some people's body language just _doesn't_, regardless of actual interest levels.

[bridgetester.livejournal.com]

I seem also to be able to get a sense of a person _without_ being able to read them, which confuses me terribly.

Well, getting a sense doesn't always involve body language. Interests, personality, etc.