[language] Sign language

[wispfox]

I kinda want to learn sign language. I already know most of the alphabet (and numbers 1-10), because my mom knew it. And I suspect strongly that when I get nonverbal, I would probably still be able to sign.

But I'm nervous about it, because I tend to be bad with languages. Also because I don't think most of the people I know know it, so I'd have no one to practice with.

So I am indecisive... and yet curious!

Comments

[laura47.livejournal.com]

i took sign language! it is awesome! take it!

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Where did you take it?

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

You're in a city, so there are deaf people.

My favorite way to learn ASL is by immersion.

I'll bet there are good classes in Boston.

Almost all deaf people I've met are fine with people hanging out on the fringes of their social functions (though it can feel like being the ultimate third wheel) to practice ASL.

Try deaf? Folks there are friendly, you can ask questions along those lines.

(I sign reasonably well, but rustily. I used to teach deaf kids, but my arthritis has affected my practice.)

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

You're in a city, so there are deaf people.

Yessss... but my social energy levels are low. So while your suggestion of hanging out on the fringes of their social functions makes excellent sense, I am unlikely to actually _do_ it.

As for deaf, thanks for the pointer! Since, yes, if nothing else, they might know where I could go to learn!

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Northeastern University is where I took ASL. And it's also a big center for Deaf culture. There's a weekly Deaf Lunch, which is attended by ASL students, Deaf students and faculty, Deaf people who live in the area, and random people who want to practice their ASL.

My ASL level is such that, if I were dropped into a city where everyone was Deaf and spoke ASL, I could probably just about barely get by, if people were patient and helped me out. Which is actually better than any other language I know.

[griffen.livejournal.com]

What he said. One bit of advice: take the class from a Deaf teacher and make sure it's an immersion class. That's how I managed to learn the language.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

I believe all the Northeastern teachers are Deaf, and the fact that it was an immersion class was incredibly frustrating. For a couple weeks. And then it started "clicking," and it worked.

[ladytabitha.livejournal.com]

I'd learn with you.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Ooooh. Yay! I shall have to investigate more in depth, then, because learning _with_ someone would help.

[dancingwolfgrrl.livejournal.com]

Me too!

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Would you be interested in attending a class with me, or just practicing?

[dancingwolfgrrl.livejournal.com]

Potentially both, although timing for a class is tricky. What about this one (http://www.ccae.org/catalog/courses/course_details.php?id=523460) at CCAE?

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Can't do that time, as I'm not home until 6:30-ish. Something that starts at 7 would be preferable. If it's Monday night, however, I can start earlier, since I work from home on Mondays.

[dancingwolfgrrl.livejournal.com]

Hm. I'm not sure where else to look, but I'm open to ideas! :)

[dancingwolfgrrl.livejournal.com]

Wait -- per moominmolly, there's this (http://www.brooklineadulted.org/bin/catalog/bldCatalogPage.pl?File=LanguageArts.txt&Key=35) through Brookline Adult Ed. Maybe possible for me schedule-wise...

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that I ought to be able to do. Starts in a bit over a week, though, so we should decide soon. :)

[dancingwolfgrrl.livejournal.com]

Yeah :) Looks like there's parking at Brookline High, which would be useful, since it's a looong T ride from near us, but not sure we'd have time to get home and then drive in for 7 pm?

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

I tend to get home ~6:30, although I work from home every other Weds now. The days I work from home, getting there won't be a problem. The others, I can likely leave a little early. :)

Is this something you can do?

[dancingwolfgrrl.livejournal.com]

I can't leave early -- the other assistant in my office leaves at 4:30 pm every day to catch her train, so I have to stay until 5 pm. I probably would have enough time if it took as long as Google maps says (15-20 min from my house), but not if there were traffic? The reason I could do the Cambridge one is that it's actually between work and my house.

(My other data point is silks practice, which is just about the same distance from my house and starts at 7 pm and for which I am never on time :->)

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Hmm. So it sounds like you can't make either. Sad!

[dancingwolfgrrl.livejournal.com]

Sad, indeed! We could see when the Cambridge class is in the winter session -- maybe it will be later? I'm happy to look other places, too -- just not sure where they might be. Maybe I'll post and ask! :)

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Mmm! Maybe. Let me know. :)

[regyt.livejournal.com]

So would I. I used to know the alphabet, and I still remember how to sign words like turtle, cookie, orgasm, horde, dead, resurrected, and frog.

Trying again, logged-in styyyle.

[ladytabitha.livejournal.com]

*blinkety blink blink*

Welp, at least you remembered the useful ones.  I remember the alphabet, hungry, thirsty, I am, you are, and why?.

So:

Horde resurrected turtle frog!
...why?
I am hungry!  Orgasm cookie!!
I am thirsty... dead frog?
OK!
OK!

[moominmolly.livejournal.com]

You know, or could easily be introduced to, a good half-dozen or so. Try the classes at CCAE (http://www.ccae.org/catalog/courses/course_details.php?id=523460) or Brookline Adult Ed (http://www.brooklineadulted.org/bin/catalog/bldCatalogPage.pl?File=LanguageArts.txt&Key=35). We (dilletante, fennel, and myself) have fallen off the wagon, recently, but would like to get back on. Playing "Once Upon A Time" was fun. :)

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Hmm! Ok, I'm pleased that you have suggestions for places to go. :)

And... does "would like to get back on" mean you're interested _now_? Or no?

[keyne.livejournal.com]

So is Trivial Pursuit! (hint, hint)

[moominmolly.livejournal.com]

True! And in answer to wispfox's question, I'm not up for taking a class right now, but if you take one and enjoy it enough to want to play silly sign games, then I'm definitely up for *that*.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Ok. :) Lots of people to practice with, if I track y'all down. ;)

Hey, this way I can be social and useful! ;)

[corivax.livejournal.com]

Learning sign language uses very different parts of the brain than learning a vocal language, so "I tend to be bad with languages" may not even apply! Go for it!

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Learning sign language uses very different parts of the brain than learning a vocal language

Which might be why I think I would still be able to sign, even if I couldn't speak!

Shall investigate. :)

[keyne.livejournal.com]

Certainly this was topaz_munro's experience -- he tends to be not-great with spoken/written languages (of which he's studied several), which are much easier for me. But when we studied ASL he had a definite advantage, because of a background in acting/mime. (I'm okay at remembering handshapes, not so great at facial expressions!)

Survey says...give it a try.

[drwex]

Learning sign language uses very different parts of the brain than learning a vocal language

Do you have any evidence for this? I'd have to go back to my reference materials, but this seems to contradict what I read when I was studying gesture for my MS thesis.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

I seem to remember something about how it uses the same parts of the brain if you're a native speaker, but different if you pick it up as a second language. The auditory processing centers get moved over into language processing for ASL if that's your primary language, but, if you're a hearing person, you're using those auditory processing centers for, you know, processing audio, and so you end up using your visual and kinesthetic senses as a non-native speaker.

But I heard that as sort of casual conversation, so can't point to any references.

[drwex]

OK, if something crosses your line of sight please point it out to me. I'm aware of work showing different parts of the brain being used for "native" languages versus other, but that seems to be much more age-related than anything else. I hadn't seen any of this work applied to signed languages.

[baratron.livejournal.com]

In the UK, some people with learning disabilities learn Makaton (http://www.makaton.org/about/about.htm) as their first language. It is a simplified form of BSL (British Sign Language). The idea is that by using sign and speech together, Makaton makes it easier to learn speech (http://www.makaton.org/about/parents.htm). It also removes the frustration that some disabled people have when they can't get their mouths or voices to work. Although not everyone understands Makaton, at least they will be able to communicate with their parents and carers.

Makaton has been used for a while - I know a 40 year old who learnt modified BSL as his first language. Eventually Makaton users should be able to progress to Sign-Supported English, normal English or BSL, which helps them function in the wider world.

This list of research papers might answer your question (http://www.makaton.org/research/research.htm).

[drwex]

This goes to my point about the first language you learn being different than other languages. Or rather, languages you learn before a certain age are learned differently than languages learned later.

[baratron.livejournal.com]

Yes, but you also said you hadn't seen any of that work applied to signed languages. So I found some for you. Pardon me for bothering.

[jedi-diplomat.livejournal.com]

starandrea knows sign language. Not sure how close you are to her. Tho I could safely say, closer than I am to her. ;) You know, I always think that knowing other languages is a good thing, but then I'm much more of a visual learner and good with languages so that kinda colors my perspective.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Locationwise, not terribly close to her. Unfortunately. But yes, I know she knows it. :)

[jedi-diplomat.livejournal.com]

Ok, I'm not being terribly clever today I guess. The point, before I got sidetracked, was that if she was close you could practice with her, but since you're not close...uh, nevermind.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

I know what you were trying to say, actually. :)

She's ~1.5-2 hours away. I can't remember.

[conuly]

Just to interject, there's no such language as "sign language". That's like saying "I want to learn Spoken Language". Each sign language is a distinct entity - you want to learn ASL, or CSL, or BSL, or whatever.

deaf isn't a bad idea, they should be able to point you in the direction of some good online resources - and most communities have classes in ASL (at least, in the US they do!) that you could take.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

True. I want to learn ASL. :) (mostly because that's what I already know a little bit of)

[ladytabitha.livejournal.com]

So to be correct, she should've said "I want to learn a signed language".

[conuly]

Well, in general, yeah, except that she had a specific language in mind (ASL), which is what she should've said. It's easier to type three letters anyway.

[bernmarx.livejournal.com]

Odd this topic should come up now. I'm watching "Messiah" on BBC America, and there's a significant amount of subtitled dialogue between the main character and his deaf SO. Assuming it's accurate, BSL seems much easier (to me, at least) than ASL -- I've managed to pick up a few snippets here and there.

[okoshun.livejournal.com]

I took sign language at a local college many years ago and loved it. I don't remember much of it, but I had a great time. I'm *horrible* with languages, but it's so expressive and interesting the way sentences are formed.

[entrochan.livejournal.com]

I definately think you should do it, especially with the possibility of it accessing completely different channels in your brain. I mean, that's just *cool*.

And I would tend to point you towards the "Adult Ed" programs like Cambridge Center for Adult Ed. They tend to be fairly low-key classes (unlike, say, a Harvard Extention School class, which is just a fuckton of work.)

[hawkegirl.livejournal.com]

Depending on the timing I would take a class with you, and I would practice it with you.

Loosing my hearing and all, I shouldn't put it off for too long.

I did know a lot as a kid, but have forgotten most of it.

[drwex]

*blink* Losing your hearing?? *blink* Wassap?

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

*points down*

Reply is below. :)

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Depending on the timing I would take a class with you, and I would practice it with you.

Oh, hey!

Classes _with_ people, good, and I've not seen you in forever. :)

When is timing possible for you?

Losing my hearing and all, I shouldn't put it off for too long.

Waaa?

[hawkegirl.livejournal.com]

Ah yeah, I was ranting about it before you were ljing much (or at all). I have hearing loss in low frequency (unusal usually people loose high first). It's unkown if it will continue to go, how quickly or stay the same. There isn't anything I can really do about it now. There is a very risky surgery that might help at least keep it the same, but it's quite risky, and it's not that bad (yet) so I'm just trying to be very careful with my ears around noise and keep checking up.