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[brains] N(V)LD continued, nonverbal communication and other bits
I'm continuing my investigation into N(V)LD in this post. The previous post dealt with the overview stuff, touched on my motoric stuff, but mostly dealt with visual-spatial-organizational stuff relating to N(V)LD. This should cover nonverbal communication (which appears to be something which is a common problem throughout the autism spectrum disorders), and perhaps some other bits that didn't fit anywhere else.
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Most of this is from the Nonverbal Learning Disorders article; I will label it as such if not:
I had more of this as a kid, before my high school friend was kind enough to expain body language and such to me. Ditto with tones of voices (although I don't remember quite so vividly how I learned that) and such.
This actually feels like it's a combination of difficulty with making connections between ideas and difficulty reading/noticing the nonverbal cues once you're aware of them. Making the connections of 'oh! There's _meaning_ in certain postures and facial expressions?' is one piece of the puzzle, and one which probably goes directly along with actually being given verbal/instructional information about what postures and facial expressions mean (it needs to be verbal _and_ demonstrative - _show_ the gestures and expressions, emphasising them and pointing to them). But, then, one has to manage to regularly make that connection between what you see and what things (might) mean. You have to notice, and then you have to interpret.
I don't _think_ body language reading is actually being translated to words and back at this point, but I'm not sure. It could explain why it's not completely automatic, though. And certainly, learning such is not nearly as effective/reliable or _fast_ as it would be if one just _understood_ automatically.
Apparently I was reading fluently at age 4. Can't quite decide if it's useful to know all these words if I can't necessarily access them, though!
Adults always made more sense than kids did, growing up...
Heh. Yes, but I'm much better than I was by combination of being taught what was appropriate and a _lot_ of time watching other people's behavior. That and I'm getting better at finding people who are sufficiently verbal and/or have easier body language for me to read.
(Also - oh, look! More things that also fall under face blindness - difficulty recognizing faces!)
Again, because of what I was taught and figured out from that base information (and probably because I finally trusted my empathy), I'm way better than I was. I will, however, probably always prefer verbal stuff for anything important, and will never completely trust what skill I do now have for nonverbal communication (either what I give out or what I take in).
Uh, yeah. I no longer trust everyone to a fault, thankfully. I suspect, however, that this is why I'm generally so careful about keeping work and social life separate - I'm really not very good at having a middle ground with what I tell to whom if it's something I need to talk about (although I do now _have_ that middle ground. I didn't used to...).
Yep, although again this is better than it was when I was a kid. I do generally know what is meant by stuff if I'm not overly tired (it's processor intensive for me to get more than just literal interpretations of things). However, I will always hear the literal interpretation first unless I hear a specific phrase _really_ often (often enough that I'm likely to be (over)using it in my own speech).
And I'm certainly not completely black & white about my relationships or life in general - I actually tend to be pretty good at seeing multiple aspects to things (perhaps through lots of practice).
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Now, we go back to the Classroom article for some more nonverbal communication related stuff.
I tend to be known for asking lots of questions, when they occur to me, especially if they are either about the 'why' of something, or relating to someone's wording not being precise enough for me to know what was meant by it. If I'm not asking questions about something new to me, I don't understand it enough to be able to use the information later. This is Just True for me.
I'm... ok at waiting for appropriate times to ask questions, but I'm better if I can write down my questions to keep track of them. My questions will be lost if I wait too long, because I will have other questions about newer input. I have, however, managed to develop a decent sense of which questions really _are_ absolutely vital to be answered right now, and which not. This did not used to be true.
I wonder if this relates to my difficulties with interrupting people?
Certainly, I can be easily overwhelmed (loud environments, lots of activity around me, inability to escape to a less stressful location).
I don't know if I need to put more effort into normal things than most people, nor do I know if this was more true when I was younger. I don't know what normal effort for things is, since this is (mostly) not something anyone's verbalized for me in terms of normal vs me.
This part (easily overwhelmed) may be part of why I tend to have trouble with processing solely spoken information (as mentioned somewhere in the previous post).
I do sometimes wonder if part of why my muscles are generally angry with me might relate to an excess of effort for doing most motor tasks... Don't know. Hard to say what is and is not normal.
*cough* Yes.
Tactile is probably the most strongly affected (I have _so_ many weird tactile things), with auditory being next (overly noisy environments are a frequent problem for me, with the definition of 'overly noisy' encompasing more if I'm over tired). Visual is mostly a problem in terms of being able to sleep at night. Olfactory isn't usually a major problem, although I do appear to be more sensitive to scents than most people (much to the annoyance of a former roommate).
However, these do mostly seem to have positive aspects to them, too. I'm also not crippled by them, as long as I can escape if things become overwhelming, and my thresholds are not so low that I cannot have a reasonably normal life. I suspect that lower thresholds is a large part of what tips the scale into autism, and I can easily imagine that possibility.
Multiple sources of input is more difficult for me than one, yes. There is a point at which there are too many for me to successfully cope with, even considering that I can postpone some processing for later.
Visual vs. auditory... depends. I prefer written words to spoken ones, but I prefer words to something not-words if it's information I _need_ rather than being able to simply enjoy whatever I get out of it. I _like_ maps, but will still prefer the word version of directions if I can only have one of the two, and that's almost certainly because maps (once I learned how to read them - it took me a bit, and it still takes me a bit to get into a map mindset) give me an overview view of things that just words can't give me. Difficulty with generalizing, and such. Maps are also an amazing tool for helping getting one's self less lost. :)
Mmm... yes. I ran into this a lot more as a kid (yikes, the teasing...), but I still run into it a lot, where people are startled/surprised at things that I cannot do (or cannot do very easily).
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The N(V)LD article includes some strategies at the end of the article for helping an N(V)LD child cope with their various deficiencies. The one I was most caught by follows:
I don't know if anyone really did this with me or not, but it feels a _lot_ like what I ended up figuring out on my own after I graduated from college and my coping techniques up to that point just Were Not Enough. I spent most of a year figuring it out, and have spent the time since then refining it and making it more automatic. (It's what I refer to at the very bottom of the last post, and is also mentioned with a fair amount of detail in here and a followup here)
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And now, I stop. Not sure if I'm _done_, although I'm done disecting myself in this particular fashion in relation to the particular links I've mentioned. Still fascinated, me. :)
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Most of this is from the Nonverbal Learning Disorders article; I will label it as such if not:
In the early years, such a child may appear "confused" much of the time (he is confused) despite a high intelligence and high scores on receptive and expressive language measures. Closer observation will reveal a social ineptness brought about by misinterpretations of body language and/or tone of voice. This child is unable to "look and learn". He does not perceive subtle cues in his environment such as: when something has gone far enough; the idea of personal "space"; the facial expressions of others, or when another person is registering pleasure (or displeasure) in a nonverbal mode.
These are all social "skills" that are normally grasped intuitively through observation, not directly taught. If a child is constantly admonished with the words, "I shouldn't have to tell you this!," this should alert everyone that something is awry because you do have to tell them (everything). The child's verbal processing may be proficient, but it can be impossible for her to receive and comprehend nonverbal information. Such a child will cope by relying upon language as her principal means of social relating, information gathering, and relief from anxiety. As a result, she is constantly being told, "You talk too much!"
[...] Since the nonverbal processing area of his brain is not giving him the needed automatic feedback, he relies solely upon his memory of past experiences, each of which he has labeled verbally, to guide him in future situations. This, of course, is less effective and less reliable than being able to sense and interpret another person's social cues.
I had more of this as a kid, before my high school friend was kind enough to expain body language and such to me. Ditto with tones of voices (although I don't remember quite so vividly how I learned that) and such.
This actually feels like it's a combination of difficulty with making connections between ideas and difficulty reading/noticing the nonverbal cues once you're aware of them. Making the connections of 'oh! There's _meaning_ in certain postures and facial expressions?' is one piece of the puzzle, and one which probably goes directly along with actually being given verbal/instructional information about what postures and facial expressions mean (it needs to be verbal _and_ demonstrative - _show_ the gestures and expressions, emphasising them and pointing to them). But, then, one has to manage to regularly make that connection between what you see and what things (might) mean. You have to notice, and then you have to interpret.
I don't _think_ body language reading is actually being translated to words and back at this point, but I'm not sure. It could explain why it's not completely automatic, though. And certainly, learning such is not nearly as effective/reliable or _fast_ as it would be if one just _understood_ automatically.
Extraordinary early speech and vocabulary development are not often suspected to be a coping strategy being employed by a child who has a very deficient right-hemisphere system and limited access to her nonverbal processing abilities.
Apparently I was reading fluently at age 4. Can't quite decide if it's useful to know all these words if I can't necessarily access them, though!
Social competence disabilities are an integral component of the NLD syndrome and this aspect of the impairment may lead to an overdependence upon adults (especially parents).
Adults always made more sense than kids did, growing up...
The social indiscretions frequently committed by the child with NLD are representational of his inability to discern and/or process perceptual cues in communication. The aforementioned visual-spatial-organizational deficits cause him to be ineffective at recognizing faces, interpreting gestures, deciphering postural clues, and "reading" facial expressions. Conventions governing physical proximity and distance are also not perceived. Changes in tone and/or pitch of voice and/or emphasis of delivery are not noticed or distinguished. Likewise, this child will not appropriately alter his expression and elocution in speech. This can be evidenced in what may appear to be terse or curt response styles.
Heh. Yes, but I'm much better than I was by combination of being taught what was appropriate and a _lot_ of time watching other people's behavior. That and I'm getting better at finding people who are sufficiently verbal and/or have easier body language for me to read.
(Also - oh, look! More things that also fall under face blindness - difficulty recognizing faces!)
The importance of nonverbal signals and cues was noted previously. It has been shown that more than 65% of the intent of an average conversation is conveyed nonverbally. However, the child with nonverbal learning disorders will try to resolve all quandaries by employing her strong verbal skills. She has to piece together the meaning of a conversation or directive from the approximately 35% (verbal) that she actually receives and processes. She totally "misses" the large amount (majority) of relevant content which is being conveyed nonverbally and, as a result, much of her conversational responses don't "fit" with the tone and mood of the occasion. This child is likely to become withdrawn in novel social situations and/or to appear "out of place".
Again, because of what I was taught and figured out from that base information (and probably because I finally trusted my empathy), I'm way better than I was. I will, however, probably always prefer verbal stuff for anything important, and will never completely trust what skill I do now have for nonverbal communication (either what I give out or what I take in).
The impairments of NLD also lead to a preponderance of very literal translations which, in turn, precede continuous misjudgments and misinterpretations. The NLD child is naively trusting of others (to a fault) and does not embrace the concept of dishonesty (even in terms of white lies) or of withholding (even inflammatory) information. He also will not recognize when he is being lied to or deceived by others. Deceit, cunning, and/or manipulation are beyond this child's scope of assimilation. He assumes that everyone is friendly who displays that front verbally and that the intentions of others are only that which they expose verbally. This inability to "read" the intentions of others often results in a lot of unfortunate "scapegoating" of this child. He needs to be taught to question the motives of others--he won't learn from experience.
Uh, yeah. I no longer trust everyone to a fault, thankfully. I suspect, however, that this is why I'm generally so careful about keeping work and social life separate - I'm really not very good at having a middle ground with what I tell to whom if it's something I need to talk about (although I do now _have_ that middle ground. I didn't used to...).
A child with nonverbal learning disorders is very "concrete" in her translations, expression, and outlook of the world. Her social relationships tend to be routinized and stereotyped. Everything is seen in terms of black or white--true or false. "Hidden meanings" have to be pointed out to her--they will not be intuitively detected or conceived. She may be regarded as a "smart aleck" because of her constant misinterpretations. This child is frequently reprimanded with the words, "You knew what I meant!" when, of course, she didn't have a clue. She had no way to access what was "meant," but not actually said.
Yep, although again this is better than it was when I was a kid. I do generally know what is meant by stuff if I'm not overly tired (it's processor intensive for me to get more than just literal interpretations of things). However, I will always hear the literal interpretation first unless I hear a specific phrase _really_ often (often enough that I'm likely to be (over)using it in my own speech).
And I'm certainly not completely black & white about my relationships or life in general - I actually tend to be pretty good at seeing multiple aspects to things (perhaps through lots of practice).
---
Now, we go back to the Classroom article for some more nonverbal communication related stuff.
The student with NLD tends to ask repetitive questions and have trouble letting go of his ideas. He often inappropriately interrupts the flow of a lesson with his seemingly never-ending stream of questions. This can become frustrating for both the teacher and the other students in the class, while the student with NLD remains oblivious to the nuisance he is creating. Remember - - this child learns through verbal mediation. It is his only way of gathering new information. He doesn't learn through observation or "trial and error." A good way to look at it is: If he's not talking, he's not learning.
I tend to be known for asking lots of questions, when they occur to me, especially if they are either about the 'why' of something, or relating to someone's wording not being precise enough for me to know what was meant by it. If I'm not asking questions about something new to me, I don't understand it enough to be able to use the information later. This is Just True for me.
I'm... ok at waiting for appropriate times to ask questions, but I'm better if I can write down my questions to keep track of them. My questions will be lost if I wait too long, because I will have other questions about newer input. I have, however, managed to develop a decent sense of which questions really _are_ absolutely vital to be answered right now, and which not. This did not used to be true.
I wonder if this relates to my difficulties with interrupting people?
Is easily overwhelmed
Dealing with the ordinary demands of life and getting through a "normal" day [...] requires an extraordinary amount of forethought and determination [...]. Imagine having to "think" every time you do anything, even routine chores you perform everyday like eating, dressing, and sitting at a desk. You can then start to appreciate why this child is so easily overwhelmed by any variance of routine, by new and unfamiliar situations (or information), and by extraneous environmental stimuli.
[...] In her interactions with [people], the student with NLD is missing at least 65% of the intent of their communications. And, at the same time, she is attempting to cope with the cognitive, as well as the visual-spatial-organizational demands of attending school. Add to this a continuous overloading of the senses (too much noise, visual stimulation or physical stimulation). The monumental effort mandated to get through a day at school is both overwhelming and exhausting for the child with NLD.
Certainly, I can be easily overwhelmed (loud environments, lots of activity around me, inability to escape to a less stressful location).
I don't know if I need to put more effort into normal things than most people, nor do I know if this was more true when I was younger. I don't know what normal effort for things is, since this is (mostly) not something anyone's verbalized for me in terms of normal vs me.
This part (easily overwhelmed) may be part of why I tend to have trouble with processing solely spoken information (as mentioned somewhere in the previous post).
I do sometimes wonder if part of why my muscles are generally angry with me might relate to an excess of effort for doing most motor tasks... Don't know. Hard to say what is and is not normal.
May experience heightened sensory experiences
The student with NLD may experience hypersensitivity to sensory stimulation (visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, etc.).
*cough* Yes.
Tactile is probably the most strongly affected (I have _so_ many weird tactile things), with auditory being next (overly noisy environments are a frequent problem for me, with the definition of 'overly noisy' encompasing more if I'm over tired). Visual is mostly a problem in terms of being able to sleep at night. Olfactory isn't usually a major problem, although I do appear to be more sensitive to scents than most people (much to the annoyance of a former roommate).
However, these do mostly seem to have positive aspects to them, too. I'm also not crippled by them, as long as I can escape if things become overwhelming, and my thresholds are not so low that I cannot have a reasonably normal life. I suspect that lower thresholds is a large part of what tips the scale into autism, and I can easily imagine that possibility.
He often also has difficulty responding multi-sensory stimuli. This child is unable to process simultaneous visual and auditory input because simultaneous processing is a function of the right hemisphere. He will usually prefer auditory to visual input (and will actually prefer not to look at the person who is talking to him).
Multiple sources of input is more difficult for me than one, yes. There is a point at which there are too many for me to successfully cope with, even considering that I can postpone some processing for later.
Visual vs. auditory... depends. I prefer written words to spoken ones, but I prefer words to something not-words if it's information I _need_ rather than being able to simply enjoy whatever I get out of it. I _like_ maps, but will still prefer the word version of directions if I can only have one of the two, and that's almost certainly because maps (once I learned how to read them - it took me a bit, and it still takes me a bit to get into a map mindset) give me an overview view of things that just words can't give me. Difficulty with generalizing, and such. Maps are also an amazing tool for helping getting one's self less lost. :)
The student with NLD is cognitively intact, usually displaying above-average to superior verbal intelligence. This creates an "illusion of competency" and the expectation for success in school. This child's adultlike manner of speaking and impressive vocabulary give the illusory impression that he is highly competent and understands much more about the world around him than he actually does. Although he may have well-developed speech, practical life skills and "street smarts" are deficient.
Mmm... yes. I ran into this a lot more as a kid (yikes, the teasing...), but I still run into it a lot, where people are startled/surprised at things that I cannot do (or cannot do very easily).
---
The N(V)LD article includes some strategies at the end of the article for helping an N(V)LD child cope with their various deficiencies. The one I was most caught by follows:
Adult role models should "talk their way" through situations in the presence of this child in order to give him a verbal view of someone else's "internal speech" process. In essence, you will be making your internal speech external so that the child can pick up the skills needed to coordinate his own problem-solving approaches. Help the child devise a sequence of steps for self-questioning and self-monitoring, verbalizing each step.
I don't know if anyone really did this with me or not, but it feels a _lot_ like what I ended up figuring out on my own after I graduated from college and my coping techniques up to that point just Were Not Enough. I spent most of a year figuring it out, and have spent the time since then refining it and making it more automatic. (It's what I refer to at the very bottom of the last post, and is also mentioned with a fair amount of detail in here and a followup here)
---
And now, I stop. Not sure if I'm _done_, although I'm done disecting myself in this particular fashion in relation to the particular links I've mentioned. Still fascinated, me. :)